Salt + Fruit
Salt + Fruit is a podcast for women tired of performing.
Through honest conversations about faith, identity, relationships, motherhood, control, and calling, we’re making room for the questions we don’t always know how to say out loud—and discovering what’s waiting on the other side of surrender.
Come sit with us.
Salt + Fruit
Pilot
Meet the co-hosts of Salt + Fruit and discover the journey that brought this podcast to life.
Hello, hello. Welcome to Salt and Fruit. My name is Hillary. And I'm Mac. And we are your hosts. We are so excited that you're watching or listening wherever you are. We're going to go on a journey together. And we just want to tell you that this is going to be a podcast where you're going to leave feeling hopefully encouraged. You're going to have a good laugh. You can laugh at us. If we're not funny, you can just like at least laugh at us. But we're going to be raw and real and talk about motherhood, talk about womanhood, talk about growing and being alive in Christ and just living a life that is alive and in color for the Lord. Love it. Love it so much.
SPEAKER_02So, Hillary, I want to just start by saying thank you for um helping put this all together. It's been just such a good story already. And I can't wait to see what happens.
SPEAKER_01I feel like I can't take credit for it. It was truly all the Lord. And hopefully we can tell that story. And this we have together. But yeah, it's amazing that we're even here and doing this and how salt and fruit became. But before we talk about it becoming, let's talk about who we are. Deal. So you can get to know us. And obviously, like get to know us every episode. Yes.
SPEAKER_02Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_01But just like a little bio.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_01Bio situation.
SPEAKER_02The things we have planned. We um we definitely plan to introduce ourselves at length every time.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. But yes. Okay, so this is Mac Mackenzie Macley, former Kramer. Dude, Mac, one one of these episodes, you need to talk about your family history. Like, okay, we'll have to do a deep dive on the book. One of the now I'm sweating. And like go through.
SPEAKER_02It's wild. Like. Well, we both grew up in Orange County. Okay. Which which instantly, I think, bonded us. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01But your family like built Orange County. So did your dad.
unknownOh.
SPEAKER_01What are you talking about? That's kind of crazy, huh? Yeah, but I think that's how Okay. We'll get into the Kramers later. That's just incredible legacy. Incredible. It's so cool. It's so cool. Okay.
SPEAKER_02We also from very strong legacy.
SPEAKER_01Yes. Don't deflect. We're talking about you right now.
SPEAKER_02Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_01Sorry. Mac is an incredible artist. I mean, taking paintings to Florence, the real deal, just gorgeous. They took me to Florence.
SPEAKER_02That was awesome.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And author now of three books.
SPEAKER_02We get to share that too, which is incredible. That just sort of happened. What this month?
SPEAKER_01Crazy. It is an incredible novel that you'll just get sucked into and feel like you're living her incredible life growing up. It's so good. A little bit. Yeah. And mother to two beautiful babies that are not babies anymore.
unknownNo.
SPEAKER_02But my forever babies. We can call them that.
SPEAKER_01That's good. I love that. And I should have said this first, but wife to Jay.
SPEAKER_02A hundred percent. Yes.
SPEAKER_01Yes. Married. Going on.
SPEAKER_02Oh, we just celebrated 13 years. Yeah, okay. Yes. Yes. This summer. Been together since I was 18. That's crazy.
SPEAKER_01Another really fun part of the book.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I would say the funnest of that book for sure. Was yeah, our love story is pretty good. In feed. I'm about to get to that part in the book. It's perfect. Perfect timing. And this is Hilary Ansel, wife to Matt, Pastor Matt. I call him Pastor Dad. They are co-campus pastors of Dream City and Long Beach. And uh you have three beautiful children. Um, and we met through our kids, which is like one of my favorite things. I don't know why I always forget that.
SPEAKER_01I always forget that. Like I always forget how we met. Like I just feel like I've known you my whole life.
SPEAKER_02Agreed. But it was nice because I feel like when you meet through your kids, there's like this instant, they're kind of like a dog test of like sniffing out trustworthy. Sure.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Kids are good at that too.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And you know when you meet friends through your kids, like if they're gonna stick or not. Correct. I think so too. It's interesting.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. They just know. They they get right to it quite.
SPEAKER_01And sports is such a great way for like to meet people. Yeah. Because you're okay, think about it. Because you're like, you're for three months, you're seeing these people for a few times a week, but you're not committed to them. No. You just you're just like testing it out. Right. It's like dating.
SPEAKER_02It is.
SPEAKER_01And then you're like, cool, we could be friends. Or like we'd never have to be on the same team again.
SPEAKER_02It makes honestly it. I'm trying to figure it out because I I love people so much. And so you see people that frequently for that long amount of time. It's not forever, but it's enough to where I'm like, I'm kind of left, like sometimes wanting more.
SPEAKER_01Oh, for sure.
SPEAKER_02And then it breaks my heart a little bit.
SPEAKER_01So many friends from like previous teams that like we just stay in contact via like social media or whatever. And I wish we could spend more time together.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it is. It's kind of one of those strange places for a mom, I think. But yes, we got lucky. We got lucky our first spring back in California to get to be on your team. It's a good thing.
unknownI didn't really say that.
SPEAKER_02Okay, so what else did I miss? Oh, one of my favorite pieces, you are a campus pastor, but you're also a commercial actress, which is so cool to me. There's things that I'm not good at, you know? Very brave in a creative way.
SPEAKER_01You're brave too.
SPEAKER_02It's totally different, though. In a totally different sense of what that means.
SPEAKER_01Okay, one of these episodes, you'll paint a fish and I'll paint a fish. And then we'll talk about who's brave.
SPEAKER_02I'll still love it. I'll still love it.
SPEAKER_01It's just different.
SPEAKER_02It is. Yeah, it is. It's fine. It's totally fine. Okay, but you and Matt have been in ministry for 16 years this year.
SPEAKER_01This year.
SPEAKER_02Yes. I'm gonna go all the way back to since we've been collaborating, because it didn't start with this show. You had asked me about a year and a half ago to do a painting of fish, which is what I paint, for your church's um Kingdom Builders Night. And I got to paint in front of people. I've never done that.
SPEAKER_01Oh so cool. She did a live painting and it was oh, it was people talk about it all the time to this day. My parents talk about it all the time.
SPEAKER_02Well, that's very kind because I've never done anything like that, but you gave me the confidence to try, and it was awesome. And you still have the peace, it hangs in your church, which is incredible. Um, and then I don't know, uh, about a year ago, I came to you. Um, it was the morning after Charlie Kirk had passed, and I just had this, I it was a burning in my belly. Like it was so physically hot. Um, and I sensed the Holy Spirit saying, You need to call Hillary. And I had no idea why. Um, but it was definitely one of those just I think first time, a first in my life where it was just so clear, but I didn't really know why. And I I listened and I called you, and I just said, you know, if there's something that we could that I could be of service, I think was how it felt prompted to phrase that that I was with you. Yeah. And you took it serious and took time to pray about it. And we both prayed separately and then came together shortly thereafter, and you had been percolating on another idea rooted in gratitude, yeah. Um, and really wanting to serve women. And we found that a lot of the themes that the themes that you were looking to do that through, I had been writing about and I'd been painting about. So everything that we had talked through, we'd already been the Lord was like weaving it behind the scenes. Right. That preparation had been happening separately, um, very much on purpose. Yeah. For a while.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, and then do you want to share about the original thought?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that so the original thought was I felt like I was supposed to do something for women centered around gratitude. And the Lord had been just really I can't find another word other than like wrecking me about how much in my life that I had to be grateful for. And we were going through a uh challenging season as a family. We were um building our house and commuting two hours a day to building house in California. Yeah, building our house in California and commuting and getting the kids. It was an hour commute and then getting the kids to school at 7 a.m. And there was just a lot to complain about, yet I felt like the Lord just kept wrecking me along the lines of like, you have so much good in your life that I've put in there and like acknowledge it, look at it, focus on that, magnify me, and changes everything.
SPEAKER_02Can I just say too, I think observing you in that season of building something from a distance and bringing your children into that community while living so far away, it just um it really showed me how committed you are to your family. Um, but then your tolerance for discomfort, I don't know very many people that would have done that. What it was a solid year, right?
SPEAKER_01I would never do it again.
SPEAKER_02I mean, there's a whole list of things we'd never do.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, if I knew what what was entailed in that season, I would not sign up for it. I'll tell you that.
SPEAKER_02But you'd probably do it again. Let me rephrase that. Like I was thinking about giving birth unmedicated. Like I'd I'd do it again to get Maddie, but like I don't recommend it. You wouldn't recommend doing that year.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02But it was a good, it was one of those things that from my perspective, it was almost just building what would become our friendship, in that I could trust you because of your willingness to be uncomfortable. And that I think, too, in a project based and rooted in gratitude, there's something to that, right? Where I I can trust what you're saying because you know it's true. It's not just you like you, you trust the Lord with the plans that he has for you because you're living in it. It's not hypothetical, it's not theoretical. It's you have the proof of what your life looks like today. Over and over again. He's been so good to us.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I'm so thankful for where we're at. And we're not even done with our house, but he is good and he's in it and he's gonna bring it to completion. So excited. So yeah, in that season, I was just learning to see things, be grateful, and document, document them, like whether it was taking a picture or writing it down in my journal. Um, and so when you called me that day after Charlie Kirk died, like I think we were all like something unlocked in us of like, let's go. Like life is short and we don't know, like our days are numbered and we don't know when our time is up. Right. And so let's maximize the time that we do have for him. Like every minute, every I want to be rung out for the Lord. Right. And I don't want to live a mediocre life anymore. I want everything to be for him, an offering to him. So that day there was like a lot of passion. And when you called me, I'm just like, I don't, I don't know what that call is, but yeah, let's go. Yeah. Like, Lord, whatever it is, let's go. Right. And when I started praying about it, that idea of gratitude came up. And um I'm just like, I'm kind of the person that's just like, okay, let's just like start walking. We both love to start. Yeah, let's just start and then yeah, we'll talk about that in another episode. We just like start walking and like the Lord will provide. And so I'm like, okay, just I'm I'm gonna call Melanie, our producer, and she's not just our producer, but she's a dear friend, and we get to do ministry together, and someone I trust deeply with Mel knew. Yeah, Mel straight up no. Yeah, she she's someone I can call and be like, I'm dealing with this, and I need to like flesh this out with you. And so I shared with her, and I shared with, I don't know what this is. Like, I don't have a word from the Lord, but Matt got a word from the Lord and like, will you pray with me about this? And so we just started praying about it, and I'm sharing with her about the gratitude and like about documenting it. And I'm like, I think I'm supposed to like scrapbook or something. Like, I think I'm supposed to like put this in paper, like put this stuff down. And you were thinking about a tangible product. Yeah. And I'm like, okay, but we're supposed to do something together. And Mac is an artist. And I can't remember if it was Melanie or me, but we were both just like, maybe she's supposed to do the art and you're supposed to like have the vision or whatever. I'm like, you're right. I'm like, it didn't. That's it. It clicked. I called you, and you're like, I know that I'm supposed to say yes to whatever it is. So I'm in. Yeah. But we we both were like just like, okay, let's just keep moving forward. Kept praying about it. And then a few months passed, and we were like, it's not a scrapbook. It's not a scrapbook.
SPEAKER_02No.
SPEAKER_01But we it's it's for women and it's around gratitude.
SPEAKER_02Right. I think looking back by the time we so I'll we're gonna look back, but also speed up from that moment. And when we when we came back together, um that was last winter, there was very much a sense of speaking to it for me. I had been praying about it, and I knew that it was there was speaking. Yeah. When you described the product, all I could see was two microphones. And I I fought it.
SPEAKER_01I th I I just it felt like well, everyone's doing a pod. And we were like, I mean, separately, we were both just like not another pod. Like I mean, at least I'll speak to the podcast. Well, and that's I was just like, I don't want to do a podcast.
SPEAKER_02Well, I think the tenderness of it too, because you and I, sorry, we both are very authentic and it's a natural state of being for us to share what we're going through in a way that we might be of service to other people. It's just like that's how I want to connect with people. It's it's I want to share stories. And so I think when you publish something like this, our intent is to be ourselves, and that's really tender. And so I but I think the Lord was preparing us to do this because there's a level of comfort now that I've never experienced because I'm noticing and now grateful for the story that he's writing. And I'm not just trying to, you know, fulfill my own desires. I'm I'm I'm I want my desires to be his. Yeah. And in that place, I'll tell you whatever you want.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And you know, a certain time ago, I think if you would have asked both of us, we would have been like more guarded.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And um, you know, use the excuses of like protecting our family and and protecting our kids at this point in time. And but I think there's just this newfound sense of like, he's got it. And I gotta tell you how. So I think when we met, when we met again, you came hesitantly knowing that it was this.
SPEAKER_01I was very hesitant. Yeah, yeah, knowing it was this, and just knowing what a big undertaking it was gonna be. I was so nervous.
SPEAKER_02Well, you okay, and then I also I the Holy Spirit was like, it's a pod. And I'm like, I'm not gonna say it. I'm not gonna say it. And then it was, I could, I couldn't ignore it. And then I finally was like, if she says it, I will I will confirm that. And the next sentence out of your mouth was, I think it's a podcast.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and then Melanie was like, Yeah, it is. Yeah, we were like, Yeah, okay. Shoot.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. But the ease of that too, of being together with the with the you know, two new friends that I knew I could trust, and the way that the Lord and the time that he chose to assemble us, you can't deny how good his timing is. Yeah, it was definitely his timing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So then from there we're like, okay, but what? Like, what is this gonna be about? Like, we knew that we wanted to like, I feel like I could almost like see who we're talking to, like, but you have to like, you know, you have to like put words to that and like make it specific and create a name and all that stuff. And so we were like, okay, let's build something right here and let's pray about it. Yeah. And that's where you came in with your beautiful gifting and put together just this beautiful like playbook, basically.
SPEAKER_02I think the the easiest part was seeing her, like you said. And you know, whether we're having conversations uh at practices or in the pickup line or on Sundays, wherever we are at, these these conversations keep happening. Yeah. Um, and I do think they there is a a centeredness or a desire that we would um hopefully turn uh gazes in gratitude to the Lord.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Right? Because life is hard.
SPEAKER_01And like whether you are single, married, um with or without kids, like it's life can be heavy sometimes, a lot of times. And if you're doing it alone, it's impossible. And so we have to we have to first and foremost do it with the Lord and then do it with each other. And so I hope these conversations are even if you're driving alone, you know, or you're by yourself for the day, like you don't feel alone. You have these conversations to just be like, oh my gosh, same. Yes, same. Exactly. Like I did, I I have not done my laundry either. Same. I don't know, just some really good in real life conversations challenge you and challenge each other. Right.
SPEAKER_02To I think that's why the name came so organically too. Yeah. To to have something that's preserved and then and and then the the the the fruit of a life that you are fully in. Yeah. And not just a placeholder going through the motions, but that you're who the Lord says you are. Yeah. And and becoming that woman.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And those daily, you know, steps toward obedience and surrender that allow him to come in and create.
SPEAKER_01Yes, salt is a preservant, right? So we're preserving the good and adding flavor. Yep. And then fruit is that our lives would bear fruit um produced by the Holy Spirit. Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, self-control. Goodness. What did I miss? Just goodness. Goodness. Yeah, you're good. Okay, goodness. You got it, girl. I always miss one. There's always one. That's a list. And it's a different one every time.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Anyway, I've I feel like I love fruit, like salt and fruit, because it is such an act every day. It's a fight to preserve what is good.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01It's a fight. Sometimes, you know, if you're I mean, bearing fruit is a gift of the Holy Spirit. And we ought to be relying on him for that and not trying to do it on our own. Right. Which we're gonna talk about. Bearing fruit is all about the journey. Bearing fruit is not about the destination. No. Bearing a fruit is all about and so often we think as women, like, if if my kids could just make it to this point in life, or if I could just finish my house, or if I could just start making this much money money, like once I get to that destination, then I'm gonna be at peace. Then I'm gonna have gentleness. Then I'm gonna have self-control. I'm gonna stop doing that. I'm gonna stop sinning. Like, then I'm gonna go back to church. But it's it's really not about that. Bearing fruit is about bearing fruit. Every day in in the hard days, in the good days. And we get to we get to do it together. And there's so much beauty in every single day.
SPEAKER_02Right. I think too, we want to meet women in those daily places. Um, because that's where we have encountered, that's where God has met me, right? Those are the stories. Like he asks men to climb mountains, but he comes into a woman's home, right? Where she's at. And we we we we need to share those stories. Those are the stories that we're gonna we're gonna tell. Yeah. Are those really ordinary places where we have felt so seen and his presence has changed everything. Yeah. And the way that you get to do a day rather than you have to do a day, yeah, and just getting through it to get to the next versus enjoying it, it is really real and and it's there for everybody. Yeah. I think hopefully the stories that we share can encourage you to know that to be true.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So we're gonna be on this journey together, and our promise is that we will not pretend to be anything, that we're not, we're not gonna pretend that we have it all together, we're not gonna pretend that we're perfect, but we're gonna just be real raw and on this journey together. And hopefully you can practice not pretending to. There's no other way to be. Okay, so and also that it would be reachable, like when we talk on this pod, that it would be like practical. Accessible. Yeah, accessible, practical. Um, not like, oh, that was nice. Like I wish I could do that. But that well, when we talk about being fully known by God, here's how you do that. Here's how I've seen that in my life. And here's where I've missed the mark. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, also each episode we're gonna talk about like a little check-in point where you at, how you're doing spiritually, physically, emotionally. Yes. And this is like this is such a great practice to do with friends. Like how often, oh my gosh, how often do you have shallow conversations with friends? I can't handle it. I'd really, I'd I just when you ask somebody where they're at, like spiritually, or where you're at for sure, physically, or where you're at emotionally, you can't there's no screwing around it. It's not like how's the weather today?
SPEAKER_02No, oh man, it's so hot this week. Yeah, I don't care. I don't care. I want to know how are you doing? Yeah, right. That's how we want to start, we want to begin.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, even if it's like I don't want to tell you right now. That's fine. True. I don't want to talk about it. I'm not ready. That's fine. Yeah, but like be real, not like how was the baseball game last night?
SPEAKER_02I don't, yeah. No, we don't have time for that. We don't have time for that. We don't. I don't, I'm so sick of it. I'm really, really, really sick.
SPEAKER_01Eternal things are all that matters. Yeah. And yeah. So like if if if you're watching this or listening to this and you've never given God a shot, and you're like, oh my gosh, I grew up Catholic, or I grew up a part of a religion, or I I I've just been so turned off by that. I just ask that you would just give God a chance and just come on this journey with us and give him a chance. And and it's really not about religion or doing things right or wrong, but it's just like just seek him. Seek him and see where he meets you. Because he's he's gonna meet you in this when you when you seek him. So we're gonna be opening the word of God, which is his store, his words to us, his God breathed words to us. And um, the Bible says it never returns void. So as we open up the Bible, just be open-hearted to know that like he's gonna speak to you. Yeah. And um I can't wait. See, see what happens. Yes.
SPEAKER_02It's good. It's so good.
SPEAKER_01Awesome.
SPEAKER_02Are you ready? I'm ready.
SPEAKER_01How are you? Where are you at?
SPEAKER_02I'm overwhelmed in the best way. I just we've been preparing for this, and the episodes that we have planned are so real and so true. The things that we get to share, I it it's um I'm I pray that it would glorify the Lord because every single story is just how He's seen us and met us and loves us. And I I I just think of all the things that we get to tell them about our dad, like our heavenly father, and and the way that he has been writing stories all along. Yeah, it's so cool. Yeah, I'm excited. Yeah, I'm super grateful. Where are you at?
SPEAKER_01I feel very grateful. Um, ironic that we're this is like a refilm of this episode. Um and like even just last night, I was driving and like I like the I I know that moms can relate to this, and like our kids, all three of our kids are in sports right now. And every night is like honestly, for in in the next hour, I will get in the car and I will not stop being in the car until like late tonight, until it's time. And so it's like school's out, you know, bam, go home, snack, practice, get the cleats, get the things. Wait, what's for dinner? What are we making for dinner? Actually, you taught me the Caesar salad thing, which I've been has been my go-to. It's a clutch move. So last night I threw, I was getting the cleats, I was getting everything ready to go, threw the chicken nuggets in the air fryer. I had lettuce chopped. Yeah. That felt like a mom win.
SPEAKER_02Oh, dude, what you chew it at least once before you plate it, it's a win. I like my lettuce pre-chew. You know, like I need a I need a tight chop.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah, same. Yeah. So, but I'm like, I can't believe I had it chopped. Like I that felt like a meal prep moment. That's hot. Just chopped lettuce. And I was throwing it on the plates, and then I'm like, get in the car. Threw the Caesar dressing on there. And then we had Caesar salads on the way to um practice, and that was our dinner. And then I had, you know, like all the back and forth. But as I'm driving, I'm like, man, I'm so grateful for this season that like I get to do this for my kids and I get to be a part, like I'm sitting in the car with them for so many hours a day. Right. This morning, it it takes me an hour to commute to work now because of getting beta middle school. But like I get to spend that time with her. And like it's a real bonding time together in the car. Yeah. And I'm just grateful for this season with my kids and seeing them grow and I'm noticing that though. It's hectic. And I could easily be like, I can't do this. This is too much.
SPEAKER_02I'm so stressed.
SPEAKER_01I could easily look at it that way, but last night the Lord just reminded me like this is a good season.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01It's crazy, but it's a good season.
SPEAKER_02It's interesting how he invites us to do as as much as he would have for us, and yet he doesn't take away from the things that he's already asked. I was thinking about the same just the time spent with the kids amidst more than I've ever had on my plate. And he never removed that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Because he doesn't do that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02He's he's so good and he's so kind. It's awesome. Yeah. Cool.
SPEAKER_01All right. Well, that's us. That's the pod. Hope you keep following along. Here we go. Here we go. Season one salt and fruit.
SPEAKER_02Love you, lady. Love you too.